An Amazon data center in Loudon County in northern Virginia. (Google Street View)
A former executive at Denver’s Northstar Commercial Partners said “everything was out of my control” and he was “being threatened with f***ing everything” when he and his onetime employer found themselves scrutinized over deals to develop data centers for Amazon in northern Virginia.
Kyle Ramstetter made the comments in a recorded phone call late on the night of Feb. 3, about a week after the federal government dropped a criminal case against him even though he’d already pleaded guilty.
“I don’t know how to say this,” he said in the call. “There’s a lot of s*** that was out of my control.”
Ramstetter’s comments relate to the long-running legal dispute between Amazon and Northstar, a development firm owned and led by Colorado’s Brian Watson. The Seattle-based company sued Watson in April 2020, alleging that he paid kickbacks to Amazon employees Carl Nelson and Casey Kirschner in order to land the development deals. A parallel criminal investigation extended for years but appears over.
Brian Watson
The parties have denied wrongdoing. Watson’s attorneys have said his payments to a trust established by Casey’s brother, Christian Kirschner, were legitimate referral fees that compensated Christian Kirschner for helping Northstar land business, and that Watson did not direct or intend for a portion of those fees to be passed on to Casey Kirschner or Carl Nelson. Nelson has said he did not violate his Amazon employment contract, and a judge dismissed the company’s breach of contract claim.
Ramstetter made the comments in a call he initiated to Amy Nelson, Carl’s wife, who has been talking about the case and its impact on her family regularly on social media and in interviews with outlets such as Entrepreneur and media personalities such as Tucker Carlson. Ramstetter said in the call his wife encouraged him to reach out to Nelson after he saw her speaking on TikTok.
Ramstetter began working at Northstar in late 2017 as a project manager and was later promoted to director of development, according to court documents. He left the company in October 2019, according to Watson’s attorney.
An attorney for Ramstetter did not respond to multiple requests for comment from BusinessDen.
Amy and Carl Nelson and their four children. Carl Nelson previously worked for Amazon. (Courtesy Amy Nelson)
Prior to the phone call, Ramstetter and Nelson’s husband had seemingly been on opposite ends of the case. He had admitted to felony wire fraud as part of a plea agreement with prosecutors and settled civil claims brought by Amazon, while the Nelsons were fighting the civil claims in court and had downsized their life — selling their Seattle home and moving close to her family in Ohio — after prosecutors seized money from their bank accounts and legal bills mounted. Ramstetter’s funds were never seized.
In connection with his guilty plea in March 2023, Ramstetter said in court documents that he knew Northstar was making kickback payments to Casey Kirschner and Carl Nelson, and that he helped facilitate the scheme.
Ramstetter also admitted in court documents to paying kickbacks himself. He served as managing director of two limited liability companies that in July 2019 bought land in Virginia for $98 million, then immediately sold it to Amazon for $116 million. Watson, Carl Nelson and Casey Kirschner ultimately received a cut of the profits.
After Ramstetter pleaded guilty, Amazon settled with him, dropping him from the company’s lawsuit in exchange for Ramstetter’s testimony when the company’s case against Watson, Nelson and Casey Kirschner went to trial.
But that trial was ultimately canceled after a federal court judge dismissed the bulk of Amazon’s claims against the three men and related entities. And in January, federal prosecutors vacated the guilty pleas submitted by Ramstetter and Christian Kirschner, saying continuing the case was “not in the best interests of justice.”
In the February phone call, however, Ramstetter sounded a different tune about the financial arrangements, telling Nelson that “your husband did nothing wrong.”
“I’m on your side,” Ramstetter said. “I’m just being threatened with f***ing everything, every component of my life, which I know you guys were too, which is like, holy s***, I didn’t know what to do.”
In the call with Amy Nelson, Ramstetter brought up Danny Mulcahy, the former Northstar executive who alerted Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos to the payments — “To be blunt, I want to go after everything humanly possible against Danny” — and IPI Partners, Northstar’s financing partner on the Amazon deals, which the firm has since sued. IPI is backed by Silicon Valley elite.
“The vendetta of a billion-dollar Mark Zuckerberg fund was out to get Brian,” Ramstetter said in the call.
As Amy Nelson peppered him with questions, Ramstetter repeatedly told her to have her husband’s attorney reach out to him and said he knew the call was being recorded.
“If there’s anything you need from me, I’d love to help you fight,” he said.
As the call ended, the pair made preliminary plans to meet in person in Columbus, where Ramstetter was traveling to attend a college basketball game later in February. But the meeting never took place, Amy Nelson told BusinessDen. And she said her husband didn’t ask his attorney to reach out to Ramstetter because, having spent $3.7 million on legal bills so far, the couple didn’t want to incur more costs unnecessarily.
“I can’t say that I was surprised by what he said at all, but it did feel pretty validating for him to say my husband didn’t do anything wrong,” Nelson told BusinessDen, adding her family “is still facing the fallout of this, every single day.”
Watson’s attorney Stan Garnett called the conversation “obviously a very interesting phone call.”
“Mr. Ramstetter’s statements to Amy Nelson and Carl Nelson are completely consistent with Brian Watson’s view of what happened, which is people have had a lot of pressure put on them to say things about him and other people,” said Garnett, of Garnett Powell Maximon Barlow & Farbes.
Provided with a transcript of the call, Amazon provided a statement about the company’s view of the overarching case.
“These defendants orchestrated a sophisticated scheme to obtain millions of dollars in kickbacks related to Amazon real estate projects and there is extensive evidence to prove it,” Amazon spokesman Brad Glasser said. “Given that evidence and the egregious facts we’ve uncovered related to this misconduct, we must act to protect our interests and will move forward with our civil case.”
In court documents, Amazon has previously expressed disappointment that Ramstetter’s guilty plea was vacated.
“The government, however, has unfortunately decided to give the perpetrators of the scheme a free pass without explaining to the victims or court why it is doing so,” the company said in a January filing. “That decision is disappointing.”
On the civil side, Amazon is appealing the dismissal of the bulk of the claims in its lawsuit. Even if that is unsuccessful, however, part of the lawsuit remains resolved. Two claims against Watson and one against Carl Nelson and Casey Kirschner were cleared to proceed to trial.
Editor’s note: This story has been updated to note that Amazon’s breach of contract claim against Carl Nelson was dismissed.
An Amazon data center in Loudon County in northern Virginia. (Google Street View)
A former executive at Denver’s Northstar Commercial Partners said “everything was out of my control” and he was “being threatened with f***ing everything” when he and his onetime employer found themselves scrutinized over deals to develop data centers for Amazon in northern Virginia.
Kyle Ramstetter made the comments in a recorded phone call late on the night of Feb. 3, about a week after the federal government dropped a criminal case against him even though he’d already pleaded guilty.
“I don’t know how to say this,” he said in the call. “There’s a lot of s*** that was out of my control.”
Ramstetter’s comments relate to the long-running legal dispute between Amazon and Northstar, a development firm owned and led by Colorado’s Brian Watson. The Seattle-based company sued Watson in April 2020, alleging that he paid kickbacks to Amazon employees Carl Nelson and Casey Kirschner in order to land the development deals. A parallel criminal investigation extended for years but appears over.
Brian Watson
The parties have denied wrongdoing. Watson’s attorneys have said his payments to a trust established by Casey’s brother, Christian Kirschner, were legitimate referral fees that compensated Christian Kirschner for helping Northstar land business, and that Watson did not direct or intend for a portion of those fees to be passed on to Casey Kirschner or Carl Nelson. Nelson has said he did not violate his Amazon employment contract, and a judge dismissed the company’s breach of contract claim.
Ramstetter made the comments in a call he initiated to Amy Nelson, Carl’s wife, who has been talking about the case and its impact on her family regularly on social media and in interviews with outlets such as Entrepreneur and media personalities such as Tucker Carlson. Ramstetter said in the call his wife encouraged him to reach out to Nelson after he saw her speaking on TikTok.
Ramstetter began working at Northstar in late 2017 as a project manager and was later promoted to director of development, according to court documents. He left the company in October 2019, according to Watson’s attorney.
An attorney for Ramstetter did not respond to multiple requests for comment from BusinessDen.
Amy and Carl Nelson and their four children. Carl Nelson previously worked for Amazon. (Courtesy Amy Nelson)
Prior to the phone call, Ramstetter and Nelson’s husband had seemingly been on opposite ends of the case. He had admitted to felony wire fraud as part of a plea agreement with prosecutors and settled civil claims brought by Amazon, while the Nelsons were fighting the civil claims in court and had downsized their life — selling their Seattle home and moving close to her family in Ohio — after prosecutors seized money from their bank accounts and legal bills mounted. Ramstetter’s funds were never seized.
In connection with his guilty plea in March 2023, Ramstetter said in court documents that he knew Northstar was making kickback payments to Casey Kirschner and Carl Nelson, and that he helped facilitate the scheme.
Ramstetter also admitted in court documents to paying kickbacks himself. He served as managing director of two limited liability companies that in July 2019 bought land in Virginia for $98 million, then immediately sold it to Amazon for $116 million. Watson, Carl Nelson and Casey Kirschner ultimately received a cut of the profits.
After Ramstetter pleaded guilty, Amazon settled with him, dropping him from the company’s lawsuit in exchange for Ramstetter’s testimony when the company’s case against Watson, Nelson and Casey Kirschner went to trial.
But that trial was ultimately canceled after a federal court judge dismissed the bulk of Amazon’s claims against the three men and related entities. And in January, federal prosecutors vacated the guilty pleas submitted by Ramstetter and Christian Kirschner, saying continuing the case was “not in the best interests of justice.”
In the February phone call, however, Ramstetter sounded a different tune about the financial arrangements, telling Nelson that “your husband did nothing wrong.”
“I’m on your side,” Ramstetter said. “I’m just being threatened with f***ing everything, every component of my life, which I know you guys were too, which is like, holy s***, I didn’t know what to do.”
In the call with Amy Nelson, Ramstetter brought up Danny Mulcahy, the former Northstar executive who alerted Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos to the payments — “To be blunt, I want to go after everything humanly possible against Danny” — and IPI Partners, Northstar’s financing partner on the Amazon deals, which the firm has since sued. IPI is backed by Silicon Valley elite.
“The vendetta of a billion-dollar Mark Zuckerberg fund was out to get Brian,” Ramstetter said in the call.
As Amy Nelson peppered him with questions, Ramstetter repeatedly told her to have her husband’s attorney reach out to him and said he knew the call was being recorded.
“If there’s anything you need from me, I’d love to help you fight,” he said.
As the call ended, the pair made preliminary plans to meet in person in Columbus, where Ramstetter was traveling to attend a college basketball game later in February. But the meeting never took place, Amy Nelson told BusinessDen. And she said her husband didn’t ask his attorney to reach out to Ramstetter because, having spent $3.7 million on legal bills so far, the couple didn’t want to incur more costs unnecessarily.
“I can’t say that I was surprised by what he said at all, but it did feel pretty validating for him to say my husband didn’t do anything wrong,” Nelson told BusinessDen, adding her family “is still facing the fallout of this, every single day.”
Watson’s attorney Stan Garnett called the conversation “obviously a very interesting phone call.”
“Mr. Ramstetter’s statements to Amy Nelson and Carl Nelson are completely consistent with Brian Watson’s view of what happened, which is people have had a lot of pressure put on them to say things about him and other people,” said Garnett, of Garnett Powell Maximon Barlow & Farbes.
Provided with a transcript of the call, Amazon provided a statement about the company’s view of the overarching case.
“These defendants orchestrated a sophisticated scheme to obtain millions of dollars in kickbacks related to Amazon real estate projects and there is extensive evidence to prove it,” Amazon spokesman Brad Glasser said. “Given that evidence and the egregious facts we’ve uncovered related to this misconduct, we must act to protect our interests and will move forward with our civil case.”
In court documents, Amazon has previously expressed disappointment that Ramstetter’s guilty plea was vacated.
“The government, however, has unfortunately decided to give the perpetrators of the scheme a free pass without explaining to the victims or court why it is doing so,” the company said in a January filing. “That decision is disappointing.”
On the civil side, Amazon is appealing the dismissal of the bulk of the claims in its lawsuit. Even if that is unsuccessful, however, part of the lawsuit remains resolved. Two claims against Watson and one against Carl Nelson and Casey Kirschner were cleared to proceed to trial.
Editor’s note: This story has been updated to note that Amazon’s breach of contract claim against Carl Nelson was dismissed.
